Your work is amazing, by the way…

It’s an extremely difficult line to walk, really. The issue that I run into is pricing lower to make sure I get something because if I don’t get it, I don’t have rent and bill money… that’s a huge issue I deal with, I’ve been living month to month for a long time now.

I can’t say that I’d recommend underselling in order to build a portfolio, but that depends on what market you’re targeting. The issue it causes is that it hurts the people who lose the gigs they would have had and the market value drops as clients get used to paying less for a product.

But of course, someone just starting out typically isn’t as good as the professional of ten years, so how could they charge the same? Does anyone else have any insight on this? I’ll hold off and see if there are any other replies before continuing on with my opinions.

Good call on not underselling oneself. I’m trying to do the same.

The challenge is NOT to undersell oneself but to also convince potential parties that you would be a solid investment. It’s hard to do that sometimes (i.e., some photographers suggest underselling initially to build up a portfolio). Do you have a blog post on your “breakthrough” in music photography?

The pre-existing condition thing is another situation entirely. One one hand, it makes logical sense because why would a company take on a patient who is sure to cost them $1,000,000 when they won’t be paying $1,000,000 back to the insurance company? On the other hand, the companies use it as a ridiculous method to keep some people from getting coverage and it’s also a shame when some people can’t get coverage because of that.

I myself have not had health insurance in years. I also haven’t been to the doctor in years. I have avoided going to the doctor for a few issues (chest pains, vitiligo, possible GERD and other things) because I don’t want a preexisting condition before I get afford insurance again. I’m nowhere near being able to afford insurance, so it looks like I’m waiting until I’m forced to buy health insurance that I won’t really be able to afford.

but everyone should have the opportunity to buy health insurance. And unfortunately, due the insurance companys’ pre-existing conditions policies, many people didn’t/don’t have that opportunity.

On the shoots I talked to some of the art directors. Out of interest, I asked how many of them cared about a photo degree. 10 times out of 10, they all said the same thing, art degrees don’t matter, it’s about what you can do. They represent some of the biggest ad agencies in the world.

The average photography college graduate has no idea what they’re going to do, how they’re going to make money, or how they’re gonna pay off that 55-75k loan. Please, save yourself a lifetime of student loans and don’t go to school for photography.

Honestly, the easiest way to start off in the photo industry is to pick up the phone and work/assist for people. Amazing how many people just won’t be able to do that, it seems to hard for some. Instead, they try to take the easy way out and go to art school, hoping the degree and career services will get them photography jobs. Good luck..

I can only speak for my school, but most of the teachers haven’t been shooting commercially since the 80s and keep teaching the same things they’ve been doing during the 80s. So much of what’s being taught is out dated, and right now, the photography industry is looking for fresh/new/creative/innovative work.

I put some new stuff on flickr a bit ago. Feel free to critique it. Good or bad. Thanks bro

Do you still have the same phone number??

=)

Terrod, the thing is that’s an art degree you’re referring to falling back on. Am I mistaken or would prospective employers view that differently than a normal degree? It likely would be better than nothing, but I personally would view it differently than a degree from a regular college, since I know the courses are completely different.

And Jesse, my posts are about making a career in photography. Sure, not all artists are about the money, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

The Bachelor at RMIT is 80% mature age students, with only a small faction getting through from High School.

This is due to a rigorous portfolio crit and interview.

However, I don’t think you should tell people to not go to school for photography. When you’re passionate about something, you want to know everything you can about it. If you don’t learn anything about the technical aspects of photography, you’re going to learn about it’s history at the least. I’d bet you’re going to have a lot more fun in learning too. It’s probably more beneficial (money wise) to go to school for business, but not all artists are about the money. You should definitely have some experience in the matter before telling people whether or whether not to go to school for photography!

That being said, it is all about getting out there and doing it. A teacher can talk all day about photography, but you aren’t going to walk out a good photographer. It’s all about practice. I learned 99% of what I know outside of school.

PS – Those kids obviously are jealous of your work. What a joke.

PPS – I also agree with everything that Brett said.

PPPS – Keaton, you should go to culinary school so you can learn how to make good cookies.

I always planned on being a graphic designer. In 2004 I went to The Art Institute of Minnesota for graphic design…for two months. I then went to a technical college for graphic design…for three months. I hated both. I had already been doing freelance work, and have continued to do so over the past five years after dropping out (I branched off into photography part way through). I’ll never claim to be an awesome graphic designer (especially now that I don’t do much with it), but I’m able to accomplish what needs to be done for my clients. For both design and photography, I have been self-taught. I follow other artists, read/watch tutorials, use Google like it’s practically my Bible, and I’m just all-around observant of everything around me. Granted, not everyone learns best in that type of environment, and some people NEED hands-on teaching/training…but again, no piece of paper will guarantee true artistic talent.

It really does all depend on what kind of work you’re looking for. If you’re going to get a job for a huge company where a degree is REQUIRED, then yeah, it makes sense to get a degree in that. Many people reading/responding to this, though, work in the entertainment industry. I can safely say that I have never been asked by a potential client to see my photography degree before booking a shoot.

How many band dudes that you know have gotten degrees in guitar/bass/percussion/vocal/screaming/synth performance?

My thing is I want a great mentor and also I’ve always heard to get your degree. there’s talk of assisting photographers and internships..and that’s all included at the school I want to attend. I know th degree isn’t necessary in the photography world but if freelancing doesn’t exactly take off how I want or goes downhill, I always have that degree to fall back on.

As far as learning myself, ill be setting up my own promo shots and whatnot on my on time, going to shows and networking by myself as well. Setting up my own shoots and going out and doing for myself as well in addition to school. So ill learn just as much as someone who doesn’t go to school and a tad more in my opinion.

Keaton, I like your work. And people shouldn’t be making this a negative thing. To each their own.

I grew up in a family where my father ran his own business, still does. I learned a lot about business from him. What I didn’t learn from him, I learned by doing my research, getting out there and learning by my mistakes (which is the most bittersweet way to go about it) and from those I surround myself around. My uncle was a professional photographer and I learned a lot from him. What I didn’t learn from him, I learned from research, experimenting, trial and error and surrounding myself by people that inspire and help me. On top of that, I am the type of person who learns at my own pace and I learn what I want to learn. If something doesn’t apply to what I am trying to do, I won’t take the time to learn it at first, unless I’ve already learned what I need. I’m sure photography/art school is great for some and horrible for others. I’ve heard great success stories and I’ve heard terrible horror stories.

I don’t think going to photography/art school can hurt your photographic vision, but I can see how it may set you back since it’s a on schedule. On the other hand, not going may set you back by someone lack of ability to learn quickly on their own.

By all means, I do not think photography/art students have an advantage on those who don’t when it comes to the technology, business or industry itself. It’s forever changing and we all have to learn together. Sure, right now, this second, a student may have an upper hand at some of those, but in a year from, hell, even 3 months from, things will change. Students may have an advantage on those who aren’t in school by using the schools equipment and being able to build a portfolio from that gear that you may not of been able to use otherwise.

All in all, once again, in my opinion, I think that if you need photography school, go for it. If don’t, good for you. If you’re on the edge, take time, research, visit the schools, visit all your options and again, take your time. Don’t rush into something that will cause you be hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans.

And if you’re wondering, I went to college for graphic design and changed my mine. I learned a lot there, but not enough to justify the loans I am going to be paying off until I am 35, BUT it does give me a sense of security knowing that I have something to fall back on.

I have a weird self taught exception. Getting a digital slr in 2004 gave me a crazy edge. Luck plays a huge roll in my career. All I did was read the manual until I knew what every setting did….half the photography students i have talked to haven’t done that. Its sad.

My digital career wasn’t popular at the time, right Keaton?? haha